Cat Purses

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

www.occupyforanimals.org/katinka-simons-aka-tinkebell.html This could very well be a PETA thing. It's so over the top it strikes me as satire. But even if it's real, it does make you think long & hard about what it means to wear leather and fur.

[grainnerhuad]

So I guess if it makes you think , it is in fact art,right? So many others at other forums have been decrying it as non-art.

[asiaticdarkperson]

Well if art is supposed to provoke thought, here's mine.

I don't think using animals (particularly genuine leather) for clothes or carrying-bags is a miuse of our resources. But I do believe extravagance is opposed to efficiency.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with enslaving and farming plants and animals the way we do. It may be a little sinister, but it is our only option IMO.

I think our ancestors somehow got a hold of some incredibly sophisticated technology in ancient times. I think cows, which don't even exist in a wild form, are absolutely a form of genetic engineering. I mean here's a creature that eats weeds and grasses and turns them to milk, meat and leather. These guys also give us manure! And what most people might not know is that a species of teotlnanacatl (nahuatl for teotl's flesh; psilocybin mushrooms) named psilocybe cubensis grows almost exclusively on cow (bos indicus) dung, and has a very wide tropical and sub tropical distribution today.

These psychedelic mushrooms are very common in India; wherever there is cow dung there is bound to be a bunch of them growing right on top of it over there. (A clue as to why cows are sacred perhaps?)

Think of it this way. This mushroom was called "god's flesh" by mesoamericans; they held it to be extremely sacred. They used to go on long and arduous expeditions in the wilderness to gather these mushrooms, sometimes one by one. But over here we had these things called cows, obviously artificially engineered creatures, who were providing us with basically an infinite supply of "god's flesh" together with a nutritious drink, MEAT (YUMMY STEAK!!) and also leather. (I bought a pair of adidas sneakers yesterday.. supposed to be genuine leather)

In any case, I believe a domesticated creature that gives us so much and who would not survive in the wilderness without us is in the very least a magnificent gift that has been bestowed on us. Same goes for wheat and rice and barley, all of which revert to small kernel size if they go wild. (this is a fact.)

I think we have all that we need to build a paradise on earth. We've had them for ages and they are the base of our entire civilization.

I believe barely 1% of Iran's surface area is populated. I think the earth could handle 10 billion people easily if only we used our resources wisely.

IMO there is nothing wrong with making clothes from animals (did you know that people in Iran have probably been making clothes from sheep's wool for at least 4000 years? And now they sell sheep's intestines to germany.. seriously what a noble creature) our ancestors were doing it already 10,000 years ago and I think there is no doubt that this is why we have cows in the first place. I think it's stupid to waste resources on things we don't need for our health and survival.

Iran, considering it is a very dry place, has a surprising amount of water in the form of Qanats. The qanat is a complex technology that was invented by Persians some time before 500BC, perhaps as far back as 1000BC. There are today Qanats in Iran that run for 200 miles and more, and some of them provide as much water as a small river all year round. Some of them are approximately 1000 years old. The qanat is only feasible in a very limited range of environmental conditions; It seems the exact conditions of Iran are what you need to profit from a qanat (it's a very difficult thing building qanats even with modern technology) And the qanat doesn't deplete underground fresh water resources.

I have my own Qanat that was dug out by my ancestor. It has a total length of about 10 kilometers; it has two branches that bring water from two separate areas. It provides 5" of water year round. And I don't know how, but the tunnel (the water way) is full of big snakes and some really big fish together with all kinds of smaller fresh water creatures. I have no idea where these guys all came from.. it's insane. The village where I live has like over 30 qanats.

In any case, I think the iranian government is making stupid use of its water resources. I think Iran could support a population of 200 million easily, and that right now the precious water is mostly going to waste.

And I think anyone who has ever grown plants knows that they are just as alive as animals. There's really no distinction; plants can communicate with you and they feel; they know their owner and feel happy when they get water, etc. etc. I think people who are OK with farming wheat and barley, but are not ok with farming cows might be a little confused. Of course if one doesn't like meat one doesn't have to eat, but to turn it into a matter of principle is stupid; there is no principle here as far as I can see.

All in all, I think we really need to start utilizing our resources with more wisdom.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

ADP, There is a big difference between human life and the lives of other beings.

We are all capable of emotion, fear, problem solving ability, creativity, happiness and grief. We are animals. ALL animals feel and think. All animals display these qualities, though in very different ways. There is no scientific evidence that shows plants feel or display anything. Plants are immobile. They have evolved for the purpose of growing and growing and growing.

Animals have evolved defensively. We are capable of causing great pain and fear to lower "animals" but we remain oblivious to the possibility that they are rational and emotional creatures like us.

Now mind you, I'm not an animal right's activist. I do acknowledge that animals eat other animals. This disturbs me. However, I consider myself mentally and emotionally evolved to the point that I can resist meat. Thus, I choose to separate myself from the behavior of lower carnivorous species.

I also detest laziness, so I do not condone the support of fast food chains which basically send animals to torture chambers without decency.

Of course, the reason that I do not eat meat is not because of animal sympathy. I simply feel that digesting another living being's essence is problematic. Not only for the disease and tainted matter in it, but also because it's bound to have an effect on one's mental capacity after a while.

I can personally vouch for the fact that when I used to eat meat I was far more aggressive than I am now. All those hormones, both manmade and animal-created in response to fear and persecution, were affecting me.

This is just my opinion.

I can accept that people eat meat if that's their choice. However, on Facebook and the like, I don't put up with people's bullshit by decrying cat abuse but tolerating cow and chicken abuse. They're all animals. People should own up to their beliefs and stop rationalizing why something is right and something is wrong.

[asiaticdarkperson]

Mitch I think plants would be really sad if you ever told them you don't believe they are alive.

Take my word for it, plants aren't just 'alive' -- they are aware. And they are happy to provide us with food. They feel it is their karma to be our source of nourishment and they don't resent their karma.

Plants can form deep emotional bonds with people. I know this but there is no way to prove it. You can go out and meet plants, talk to them, get to know them individually.. maybe even collect some seeds or cuttings and grow them in your own back yard.. then you will know that plants are no different than animals.

I suggest you get a San Pedro cactus (Echinopsis pachanoi) from a nursery. It's very cheap and it doesn't need anything -- it doesn't like any water for 6 months a year. Just put it in your room next to your PC or wherever and I promise after a month you will have a new friend.

My san pedros used to appear in my dreams. They are capable of returning so much love and affection it's crazy.

I really hope you get to experience a firsthand friendship with plants in your lifetime. They are such marvellous beings.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

You might very well be right that plants are alive and they apparently ENJOY us eating them.

A pig being killed and sliced apart, not as happy to service us. A chicken being slowly tortured and murdered in a KFC-sponsored slaughterhouse, not really excited about the prospect. Hell, even if plants were alive we treat them a lot better than our animals!

[asiaticdarkperson]

We had some guests over last night. One of them, a woman of 40-something years old, came wearing a fur coat that must have cost at least 10 grand.

So, the question that is begging to be asked here IMO is: Is it a waste of resources for a woman in Tehran (where there is no winter at all lately) to buy and wear fur? Is it wrong? (not in a moral sense, but in terms of efficiency)

Then the next question is: Is it wrong for a nomad or hunter-gatherer, living in a harsh climate, to kill an animal (or two) and make himself a warm fur coat?

I'll tell you what I think. The second guy (if he's anything like me) will use his one warm coat, which he made with his own hands, for the duration of his life. He probably doesn't kill animals or plants needlessly. (If he is living in a state of balance with his environment. Which is the only way to survive out in the wild IME, mind you.)

The first case, on the other hand, is absolute nonsense. IMO she came here wearing that expensive coat for one reason, and one reason only: So that the other guests would think "whoa, she must be rich!"

My conclusion: The spirit of modern city-life is corrupt, and whatever people are doing in cities is almost certainly against nature and thus wrong. The spirit of nature, on the other hand, is incorruptible. And whatever a man does in the wild, is either to survive or to stay healthy, and thus unquestionably right.

The reason I went into all that BS in the previous posts is because I believe our biggest problem as a species is our horrendous misuse of resources. And I think the cause of our inappropriate behavior is our fucked-up spirit. The earth has the resources and the capacity to support a vast array of countless organisms, all co-existing in peace (relatively speaking) each occupying their specific biological niche, playing their part for the whole. The way we are going, there will be no room for any other besides our selves.

Here's Megadeth's "Countdown to Extinction:"

Endangered species, caged in fright
Shot in cold blood, no chance to fight
The stage is set, now pay the price
An ego boost, don't think twice
Technology, the battle's unfair
You pull the hammer without a care
Squeeze the trigger that makes you man
Pseudo-safari, the hunt is canned...
The hunt is canned

All are gone, all but one
No contest, nowhere to run
No more left, only one
This is it, this is the countdown to extinction

Tell the truth, you wouldn't dare
The skin and trophy, oh so rare
Silence speaks louder than words
Ignore the guilt, and take your turn
Liars anagram is "lairs"
Man, you were never even there
Killed a few feet from the cages
Point blank, you're so courageous...
So courageous


One hour from now
Another species of life form
Will disappear off the face of the planet
Forever...and the rate is accelerating


All are gone, all but one
No contest, nowhere to run
No more left, only one
This is it, this is the countdown to extinction

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

I dunno how off topic this is, but it's 6am and i'm awake for the day, when i should be going to sleep for the night....

I find it confusing that human beings want to have sex with aliens. It's the fantasy of so many men and women, alien breasts and vaginas, etc. Now contrast that with the inherent disgust we all have for bestiality. Now how can we explain this phenomenon psychologically? We are anxious to have sex with beings "greater" than us, but detest the idea of making love to species "lower than us." The truth is, we're all hypocritical fools.

PS I still wear leather being a vegetarian. It makes me the scorn of vegetarians everywhere...I dunno, doesn't really bother me. I guess i am of the belief that resources are resources...

[grainnerhuad]

Mitch, if resources are resources then wouldn't it be reasonable for someone who is poor not to let meat given to them go to waste?

As for the aliens...I think you need some sleep.