|
Post by The Late Mitchell Warren on Jan 11, 2012 14:57:02 GMT -5
Yes, the dream was very profound, and unfortunately I vivid dream very rarely. Hoping to change that. Azazel is very alpha-male and likes to pick apart statements. As for Jen, she's a bit of a traditionalist. So yeah it's not surprising you clash with them. And yes outside of Subversify you would probably be dismissed. But we like thinkers who challenge us to new depths. Yes, I agree that qualifications are overrated. And I think we're entering a new age where credentials are not the most important thing anymore. It's the skill and knowledge you display to your audience. I think people are coming around and realizing the value of personal experience as qualification. (Hence, homeopathic treatment, Internet news, etc.) I'm not sure how we would create a scientific investigation of death. All we know is that our bodies decompose and all activity ceases. How do we track what happens to our dna or consciousness? I know Karla once told me they found strands of DNA out in space and that kind of freaked me out.
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 11, 2012 15:22:26 GMT -5
I think it's surprising that there should even be a place where I'm not dismissed offhand. And what's more is that I found it.
You guys are really strange..
And I think Jennifer and Azazel are so reasonable that just reading their comments depresses me!
-f
|
|
|
Post by karlsie on Jan 11, 2012 18:52:26 GMT -5
How reasonable truly, were Jen's and Azazel's arguments? They went straight to the Western world explanation of anthropological data and clung to it. So much of ancient history and ancient technology was lost in the meddling Crusades and the infamous dark ages, where they hunted down and burned anything and anyone who might have offered a gleaming of enlightenment. Ancient history is currently presented from a solitary view; tracing the roots of a nomadic tribe and keeping the anthropology consistent with their views concerning the fall of great civilizations from Babylon to Rome. This viewpoint was, and continues to be primitive. If not, why is it that no other interpretation of history, taken from ancient books, is validated? You can't get a full perception of a diamond by looking at just one side of it.
Another thing that bothers me is that possibilities quoted for common language are events that go back no more than 2,000 B.C. Babylon and the earliest pyramids go much further back than that, as does the history of the mysterious Olmec. At this point, considering the amount of suppressed and destroyed evidence, i think your hypothesis is as good as any other. At least it veers away from the earmarks of conditioning.
It's easy to fall back on "knowledgeable experts" when this is what you have been taught and this is what has been widely accepted in society. It's far more difficult to gather the evidence yourself to come up with an alternative theory. Ask any scientist who has been ostracized from the main academy for pursuing studies into the unconsciousness, or who support higher intelligence than our own.
DNA in space... yes, i think it is one of the great marvels of creation. All the building materials are out there for creating new life; DNA, water, the building block elements for stars. Our planet bares life because of its size, circumference to the sun, and the various planetary bodies that keep it moving in clock like precision, and even shelter it from celestial bombardments; such as Jupiter, so large it draws the main brunt of erring asteroids. I don't think these materials are haphazard. They are reserves to draw upon in the case that nature needs to wipe her drawing board clean and start over.
We have a tendency to look inward, to the smallest molecules to decipher the origins of life when we should be looking upward to the marvelous perfection that created life. And while we are looking, we should also wonder, if life is so insignificant after all, why is there such an apparent cosmological intent to preserve it?
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 3:18:41 GMT -5
Mitch, what if it were possible to induce a state of artificial death?
What if it were possible to systematically study the "afterlife" just like we study the daily life today?
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 3:30:55 GMT -5
Karla, 2000BC is the date that I have provided for when there was a common language within Europe and the middle east.
At 2000BC, there must have been a common language in Mesoamerica also, and one in Eastern Asia, and another in certain areas of Africa too.
If I were to guess, I'd say that the last time all of humanity had a common language was before 10,000BC.
You see, this fellow Graham Hancock, invited a sane and credible geologist to Egypt, to see the Pyramids at Giza. Graham payed the expenses from his own pocket, it seems.
At the pyramids, he asked the geologist to take a look at the erosion and weathering marks on the stoneworks and tell him what had caused them.
The geologist took one look and said "torrential rains, probably over a very long period" or something to that effect.
So, Mr. Hancock asked "Are you sure it's not from windblown sand?" The geologist apparently wouldn't even dignify that with an answer.
Later, Graham did some research and he found out that beginning around 8000BC and for at least two thousand years, the African Sahara had experienced a very wet phase, where freshwater lakes were a common occurrence all over the now barren desert. This period is known today as the Neolithic Subpluvial.
Graham also found some rock art in a few northern african countries, depicting giraffes and elephants and other animals that don't live within a thousand miles of the drawings today. I only remember a single example of this now and it is a giraffe depicted at Tassili n'Ajjer. But I know there are more.
Graham concluded that this was enough evidence to prove that the pyramids and the sphinx at Giza were built before 8000BC. Although he goes ahead and provides still more shattering evidence in his book, which I found to be way overkill.
According to legend, the Aztecs claimed that no one knew who built the pyramids at teotl-huacan, or when. They believed that those pyramids were there when their first ancestors came to that land! They believed that those pyramids were built by a different race of men and women; giants.
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 3:41:57 GMT -5
Also, I'd like to propose an alternative translation for the name teotl-huac-an as "sacred place of teotl."
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 4:12:37 GMT -5
In that other book by Colin Wilson and Rand Flem-ath, these guys expound on a theory that all ancient sacred sites on earth are arranged systematically and their locations (ie. latitude/longitude) have been thoughtfully selected.
They offer a formula by which these sacred sites can be located. Then they go forward with actually finding new sites using the formula.
They also offer evidence of certain ancient maps, like the Piri Reis map, that depict areas such as the coasts of Antarctica and South America precisely. These maps are certified by the establishment to have been made before the time of Colombus.
Then they point out that the coast of Antarctica has only been recently mapped with technology that can actually see the coastline under the ice, from space or something. So, the maps must have been made at a time when Antarctica was relatively ice free.
They have a whole boat full of strange, exciting evidence that all adds up to the conclusion that there was a worldwide civilization in ancient history and that this civilization was global.
Graham Hancock offers plenty of evidence that this ancient civilization had measured the earth's exact radius, circumference, etc. among other things.
It's really sad that people dismiss these works on the grounds that these people have no business poking their noses in such matters, without the establishment's approval.
-f
|
|
|
Post by karlsie on Jan 12, 2012 7:24:12 GMT -5
I'm really curious then as to why you gave a common language date rather recently by historical measurements. My knowledge of ancient history, apart from Western applications, is pretty weak, but it seems to me that by the year 2,000 B.C., the language would already have begun to split into dialects and appropriated new word meanings. Or maybe that's the point... they had begun to split, yet still held strong similarities.
I'm no genius at geology either, but i do know that erosion from sand and erosion from water have two different effects. Sand blasts away, causing smoother contours. Water causes crumbling and pocketing. The discoloring from sand would be light. The discoloring from water would be darker. If the geologist said the erosion was caused by water, chances are the damaged areas are somewhat dark, rough in texture and look a bit crumbled here and there.
And i have read documented papers that pushed the dates of the earliest pyramids on both sides of the globe back much further; as far as 8,000 years B.C., with the possibility of even more ancient relics. About ten or fifteen years ago, they discovered a pyramid in Russia. Archeologists suspect there might be pyramids the world over.
The pyramids, i believe, are somehow connected with the earth cycles, sort of like the mechanisms inside a clock. The teutonic plates and the ring of fire form a pattern. As they shift, they cause some parts of the earth to depress, other parts to raise. Some of the pyramids may get buried, such as the one they found in the middle of Mexico City, but they are never destroyed. They get covered with earth. They become forgotten. But they were built for a reason, and i don't believe as a space port or for the pure pleasure of studying the stars, but something specifically having to do with Earth and her cycles.
Do i believe they are spiritual? Absolutely. I wouldn't think of visiting one before cleansing any impure thoughts and approaching the pyramid with utmost respect. I have seen spirits dwelling within them, the kind of spirits i find only when i'm deep in the wilderness or in communion with my lady Iliamna of the volcanoes. In Hawaii, i believe they call her Pele.
I have no doubt that humankind has made enormous advances in the past, had incredible technology, and it did something stupid to throw itself back to square one, over and over again. We'll keep running around like a rat in a cage until we finally get it right.
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 8:39:36 GMT -5
The date is just a guess on my part. I don't have any evidence to suggest when proto-indo-european split up. I do know however, that the Romans, the Greeks and the Persians didn't exist yet at 2000BC.
And, when they suddenly appeared, they were already relatively developed. Darius already had a written language at ~500BC. The Greeks had one, too. They were already deeply into logic and philosophy. Aristotle, Zoroaster, etc.
Even the earliest forms of known Greek and Persian writing are in a completely different class than the Egyptians' and Sumerians' script, IMO.
Darius, for example, is credited with inventing his own written language.
I don't think the Sumerians or Egyptians could have taught Darius his style of writing. The Sumerians, for one, didn't even exist anymore at that time. And the Egyptians had sunk to such lows that they were conquered left and right by Cambyses II and then Alexander.
But I do know one thing for sure, there was a man who lived in ancient Persia named Haxa Amanisha. The Greeks, knew him as Acha Emenes.
So, by ~500BC the accents and pronounciations were already different. Yet, I have a suspicion that the ancient Greeks and Persians understood eachother to a significant degree.
I don't imagine this level of divergence could have happened in any more than ~1500 years, at most.
Of course, none of this is for sure, it's all mostly speculation and conjecture on my part.
Also, keep in mind that the country we know today as ancient Persia was born as a result of one man, Cyrus, unifying the Medians, Parthians and Persians, under the name of the Achaemenid Empire.
These three tribes, were at that time, the dominant peoples occupying the Iranian plateau. The Medians controlled the north, the Persians the south, and the Parthians the east, I believe.
All three claimed to be descendents of Ariyans.
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 8:52:07 GMT -5
The Old Median word for horse is aspa. The Old Persian word is asa.
Asa is English ass, IMO.
Today in modern Farsi, horse is asp.
I believe, the city of Esfahan in Central Iran, used to be called aspa-daana when it was first named. Later it became aspa-dan and after the Arab conquest of Persia, it became asfa-han.
Aspa-daana in Old Median means "place of horses."
Edit: what I was trying to say here, was that the word aspadaana gradually transformed into Esfahan, in the same country, over a period of around 2000 years or so. Words like mother, father however have remained practically the same over vast distances. And I think it doesn't make sense to assume that such words could have spread via trade routes.
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 9:31:29 GMT -5
The theory at this point, is that around 3000BC Gilgamesh recorded that a flood destroyed Sumer. Buried it under many feet of earth, it seems. The similarities between the Gilgamesh myth and the Noah myth are such that most people believe they are the same person. Gilgamesh was half god it seems, and he is said by some to have lived for a very long time. Noah, according to legend, was the last in a line of god-like men, and he lived for 700 years according to the Islamic tradition. (Apparently, this claim was made by Muhammad. But I can't verify this.)
The Maya, and the Aztecs too, it seems, were also of the opinion that a big civilization in their immediate geographical area, was destroyed around 3000BC. (The beginning of the Long Count)
3000BC is also the generally accepted date for when Dynastic Egypt "began." Although no one seems to wonder how this particular civilization began completely developed and slowly degenerated and declined as time passed. For example, Egyptologists maintain that, as a rule, older pyramids and temples in Egypt are of exquisite workmanship. But the newer ones are crap in comparison.
So, if we assume that the Ariyans were one particular group of people who survived this legendary world wide devastation, everything neatly falls into place, IMO. (groups of people obviously survived all over the world.)
The Ariyans may have spent a hundred years, give or take, developing their own settlement and re-learning to become self-sufficient.
After this, it's anyone's guess how long it took them to spread their language to India, Persia, Greece and western and northern Europe.
It seems the three peoples named above, were able to develop rather quickly. I would guess that this was because of their ideal natural environments.
The people of northern and western Europe, when they appeared on the scene, already had their own version of the Indo-European language, it seems. It took them a bit longer to develop than their southern cousins, but this is also not surprising considering they lived in a much colder climate.
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 9:40:17 GMT -5
Obviously, I'm not saying that the Sumerians and the parent civilization of the Mayas spoke the same language. And yet, their languages may have been comparable to modern Farsi next to modern English.
I just can't get over the fact that modern Farsi and Nahuatl share a common word, tepe! This is inexplicable.
The fact that the Eastern concept of Tao is basically the same as the Toltec concept of teotl is also very strange, IMO. And then add Greek THEOS to this!
Coincidence? or Schmoincidence?
-f
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 12, 2012 16:28:17 GMT -5
I think all the material evidence we have today is just nonsense at best.
If there was any meaningful conclusion to be reached from studying said evidence, the Einsteins would have let us know by now.
But all I see is a bunch of nonsense deduced from other nonsense.
I think it's very likely that we could never really know anything for sure.
I'm not even sure you guys really exist, at this point. It could all be in my head for all I know.
-f
|
|
|
Post by karlsie on Jan 13, 2012 4:11:18 GMT -5
I gave up a long time ago on believing in coincidence. How many times do you say "bingo" before suspecting the game is rigged? That's the big catch-all, the gambler's mind that knows just what the odds are and lays down his stakes accordingly. He doesn't bet high on low stakes unless he's either a compulsive gambler or he's learned a way to beat the odds.
Everything we do is a gamble. We gamble we won't get hit by a car when we go to work in the morning. We gamble our shellfish dinner won't give us food poisoning. We gamble we can entrust our precious children to another person's care. We reason that the odds are low so we gamble. But what about when the odds are low; say, the road conditions are so treacherous, you have a ten percent chance of arriving at your destination without an accident, yet it happens; not just once, but over and over again? You've beaten the odds repeatedly for no logical explanation.
The coincidences that build up in life; that one in one hundred chance, that one in a thousand chance, those odd things put in our pathway (if i had not stopped to look at the sunset for fifteen seconds, i would not have met my old school teacher who i had not seen in twenty years) those choices that seemed spontaneous at the time but changed your life forever; no, i'm sorry. I can no longer see them as coincidence. They are opportunities. They are often guidance and protection. It's not predetermination, exactly. It's a planting down on road marks to find your destiny. We are here to fulfill a great design, but if the thread we weave is faulty, it is eventually discarded for another.
|
|
|
Post by sh on Jan 13, 2012 7:08:43 GMT -5
So, Karla, does this mean you think it's possible that a global civilization existed in the distant past who knew the concept of Teotl/Theo/Tao and possibly called it one of these same names, or perhaps a similar sounding word?
Do you think it's possible that during the reign of that civilization, everyone spoke the same language?
Is this single word enough evidence to prove this point, in your opinion? What if this word were the only piece of evidence in existence, directly in favour of the common-language hypothesis?
-f
|
|