Meaning

[sh]

I've realized that the concept of meaning is meaningless. Strangely, meaninglessness is also meaningless.

What does meaning mean? I think it means nothing. But even to say that it means nothing is to say that it means something.

What is meaning? Is it something that is contained in words?

Words have meaning, or so they say. But what is meaning?

What does meaning mean? Does it mean meaning? no shit.

What are words? What is the meaning of word?

Does this mean there is no meaning? Then what does meaning no meaning imply?

I'm gonna read this again tomorrow and see if it means anything.

-f

[grainnerhuad]

Meaning only means something if collectively it is agreed upon, otherwise it is meaningless which really doesn't even count does it?

[karlsie]

What is meaningful to me might not have meaning to you, just as i might say, "i saw a miracle", and others scoff, "it was just a co-incidence."

[asiaticdarkperson]

Yeah, but what is 'meaning' at its core? How is it defined as an abstract concept? Does 'meaning' have concrete existence? Is it a property of "things?" Or is it something we attach to "things?"

..when rabbit smells a wolf, it means it's time to run (or die.) Does the rabbit understand this 'meaning?' Is the rabbit's understanding relevant to the meaning's existence? If the rabbit does not understand, why does it run?

Does meaning exist in absence of reason? Does it exist in absence of thought? If it does, then life must have a meaning which is independent of our understanding and our consensual social agreements. If it does not, then there is no underlying meaning behind life unless it is intended by someone with awareness.

Grainne, is it necessary for two (or more) people to agree on the meaning of some thing in order to make it meaningful?

Karlsie, is meaning purely subjective? What about the meaning of meaning, is that also subjective?

I think, in linguistic terms (be it human or machine language) we could say that language as we understand it is composed of two main parts; the symbol and the machine's interpretation of the symbol, or in human terms the word and the meaning of the word. I'd say when we read or listen to something in a language that we understand, we don't actually read/hear the words themselves but rather their meaning. The word invokes the meaning, which is completely arbitrary and based on mutual agreement between two or more parties.

If we expand this idea, we could say that perception in general is also based on the very same structure. (i.e. What we generally perceive in our daily lives is the appearance of things, but underneath the appearance is the meaning which it invokes.) At this point the argument branches off again, since meaning is different for our organism as opposed to our self (ego.) e.g. If I get a car it'll make me (my self) happy. Perceiving the car provokes a feeling of happiness which is purely subjective; someone who has a hundred cars probably won't feel anything if he gets another one. (The new car means nothing to him.) But as far as an organism is concerned, a car implies faster transportation across greater distances, and this is no longer subjective; it doesn't matter who you are or how many cars you have, the meaning stands regardless of you.

So, having a car means being able to go far, fast. (as opposed to walking.)

I have no idea where I'm going with this right now.. The big picture is too complex; I get the sense that all this would be more properly described in terms of impulses that originate in the world at large and how we process and react to those impulses..

[grainnerhuad]

I think the agreement depends on how many individuals are involved. If you are a hermatic you only need to agree with yourself to bring meaning to something. However enter another person and you have to rearrange. Enter 3 or 4 more and the lot of you could be hauled off to the madhouse because your meanings could be insane to the new group.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

Yep, all "meaning" is an illusion. Life is just intellectual masturbation when you get down to it. People casting illusions and forming meaning from nothing just to feel better about themselves.

Of course, I'm pretty close to being hauled off to the madhouse in general, so take anything i say with a grain of salt

[asiaticdarkperson]

Really weak effort, bro. This just takes us back to the meaning of meaning.

In other words, is the meaning of 'meaning' an illusion too? "Meaning" means the same thing to everyone, afaik. And we never even had to agree on what it means.

[grainnerhuad]

Great, now you've done it. I bet Mitch has a show tune about that too.