Legalizing prostitution

[asiaticdarkperson]

I think I read Mitch say that he thinks prostitution should be legal and I just couldn't resist analyzing the idea.

So, in the west it is commonly accepted that sex is good for people. Apparently, the general idea is that having sex on a regular basis is necessary for one's mental and physical well-being.

I remember in junior high they used to tell us that masturbation was also essential for young boys' and girls' growth and health. But that's a different story altogether.

Anyway, since the consensus seems to be that sex isn't just good, but that it's required for staying healthy, then I ask; if prostitution were legalized and became a morally acceptable practice, then what would stop every young girl from selling sex?

The way I see it, sex is pleasurable, it's healthy and it pays.

If prostitution were legalized, I'd do it. If I could get paid for fucking, I would never go to work again.

So, the question is, should sex-for-money ever be considered legitimate, moral behavior in a civilized society?

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

I wouldn't suggest that free sex is right for all people. I think some people are capable of it, while others are monogamous, or at least part-time monogamous.

I don't necessary think that free sex is healthy. I think some studies suggest regular sex helps men live longer, but that's debatable in my opinion. I do think the sex drive and desire for intimacy are part of the natural makeup of human beings, so I'm sure being abstinence all your life will have some consequences in psychology or perhaps physiologically. (Women actually live longer without sex, or so studies suggest)

Anyway, I don't think legalizing prostitution would necessary lead to widespread slut hood or a dramatic increase in young prostitutes. True there would be an increase, because some women (and men) would enjoy doing it for a living.

But like drug use, I just see it as a necessary "evil" (though I don't really believe it is a moral sin) and a reality of life. Why ban what is obviously all around us? Nevada, a state where it is legalized, there is no evidence of the collapse of society.

I just think the government can't figure out a way to profit from it. Oh yeah and they like to give the "illusion" that religious conservatives still have power in a money-driven society. (Morally though, the government doesn't care...they support pornography and the early sexualization of prepubescents.

Anyway, i just think the majority of guys who use hookers are lonely, troubled, physically or mentally challenged, and I don't think they should be punished, nor the women who give them attention.

Basically, in every relationship, the woman wants something in return from a guy for her romantic affection. If the guy cannot provide anything to her, the only offering he has is money. And it's a form of respect, provided he's not abusive.

[karlsie]

I don't think men understand a woman's sex drive that well. It's strongest during her fertile years, and yes, she can become very sexually active then, but it doesn't mean she wants to have sex indiscriminately. Just as a guy sometimes can't "get it up" for performance, sometimes the overtures of a man simply do nothing for her. So what if all she has to do is receive? What if she doesn't want to? If she doesn't feel like having sex, it's nothing but a drudgery and any moves the man might make to change her mind only feel invasive.

This is not to say a woman won't deliberately engage in one night stands. Sometimes she might see a guy, decide he's really cute or charming enough to turn her on, but afterwards decide once was enough. This is common for young single women who haven't yet formed an attachment. She is satisfying an "itch" and may go for months before deciding to seek satisfaction again if she hasn't yet found a suitable sexual partner.

I've known a few prostitutes. They felt it was just a job. They go through the motions, but the only pleasure they get is usually from a honey they have on the sidelines. They don't talk about their clientele unless they are particularly fond of one or two of their customers. I do think prostitution should be legalized, just as i feel any "victimless crime" between adults should be legal. It should be a personal choice. We shouldn't worry about other people's morals, just our own, because each person has a different moral outlook.

[asiaticdarkperson]

I think these posts above sum up pretty much all there is to say about this issue from a rational point of view. I feel like we hit a brick wall when it all turns into a matter of moral right and wrong, or a matter of sexism.

Morality is IMO the inner equivalent of society's "laws." I see it as a kind of barrier that prevents people from doing certain things. In bygone days, certain people were unwilling to rape or steal because these were considered wrong in a moral sense. Today, many people don't rape or steal just because it is against the law and if they are caught, they will be punished. I think we could say that fear of punishment is what upholds the law.

I think we could say that social laws are an outside manifestation of our inner moral code. Between the two of them they outline what is proper behavior.

I see that today, to say that something is legal (ie. not punishable by law) is tantamount to saying that it is also moral. And morality is defined by the collective consensus and not by the individual, IMO.

This is a very primitive way of keeping apes in line. I believe we are intelligent enough to stop thinking in terms of moral rights and wrongs and we certainly shouldn't allow some outside law to define our sensibilities.

So, what does this have to do with anything? I'll start at the beginning.

I was introduced to sexuality when I was thirteen. At the time I had no idea that the penis could be used for anything other than peeing, and although I knew that girls didn't have penises, I hadn't made any connections on what this might have meant. All this changed when I came into contact with one of my sister's best friends, Samantha. Sixteen or 17 years old, she was my sister's schoolmate who practically lived at our house one summer.

I'm not going to go into any detail here; suffice it to say that after Samantha, I never did anything new sexually because I already did all there was to do dozens of times with her.

For years afterwards, even though I never discussed the matter with anyone, I felt that I had been abused and violated. Whenever I thought about those days and about Sam, I felt dirty and sick. I felt like she was a monster. I just couldn't understand how anyone could derive pleasure from playing with a little kid the way she did with me. I was disgusted by the thought of her and also by myself.

I think her driving motivation was the sheer pleasure of corrupting innocence, whatever that means. This has no relevence here, just shows we're strange..

So, over the years I developed an annoying quarrel in the back of my head about how I was supposed to feel. On the one hand, my mind told me that Samantha was a despicable person and what she had done was just terrible no matter how you look at it. But on the other hand, I remembered that while she did technically trick me into kissing her private parts -she had not forced me to do anything against my will, and I distinctly knew that I had enjoyed every moment of her company. The way I felt about her had nothing to do with my mind or thoughts. The best I can describe it is to say that my flesh craved for her. Every cell of my body wanted her. This feeling was so powerful that everything else was cancelled out.

So, I was stuck with a schism for many years. I had no idea what to think and how to feel.

Today, I realize that through such an introduction I was taught that sex is a physical drive that can be manipulated at will for one's own pleasure and satisfaction. I was taught that it's fun to touch boobies, and that boobies like to be touched too.

At the risk of sounding extremely judgemental, I'm going to share with you what the spirit has to say about sex. Please try to keep in mind that I'm really not against sex or women, and I'm sexually attracted to practically every woman I see, and yet..

Sex is the act of creating life; or more accurately the act of bestowing life. Sex is pleasurable because this is the best and surest way for nature to trick organisms into reproducing. Think about it.

As physical machines, we human beings possess a certain finite amount of energy. This energy has been called by many names throughout the ages. I will refer to it as life force, as in the force that is life-that keeps us alive.

So, sex is basically the act of two partners giving a piece of their own life force to a new being. I believe whenever we have sex we are in effect giving away our life force, regardless of whether we are doing it for fun or for whatever.

After overcoming layer after layer of nonsense, at this point I have nothing but fond feelings for Samantha. I think she was gorgeous, and just thinking about those days brings back memories of erotic fun amid lighthearted childlike simplicity.

I don't really think I was abused anymore. Sex was for me never again as exciting and fun as it had been with her, though.

What I object to now is the way we treat sex, as a species. We completely disregard the magical nature of creating life and so we've reduced sex to a mundane and often boring act that we somehow equate with love.

In light of the spirit of sex, prostitution is absurd.

Paying someone so you can pretend to make babies with them wtf?

Karla, this really isn't a matter of my morality against yours. It is a matter of the optimal energetic configuration of the human machine. It also isn't a matter of male vs. female sexuality. To me, women are multicolored blobs of morphing geometric patterns. Incidentally, so are men.

I believe that as sophisticated machinery that works on the principle of the conservation of matter and energy, the self can be fine-tuned for optimal energetic efficiency.

I have discovered that the self has a function like Windows' Control Panel, where you can customize the way your operating system works, and looks. I would however compare the self to open source UNIX-based operating systems, where you don't just have a control panel, but you have the very source code itself at your disposal, to modify as you please.

I think the metaphorical sayings that we're estranged from god or disconnected from the spirit mean that we aren't configured to make optimal use of our resources. I believe we are all natural programmers in terms of the human "operating system." The problem is that we don't have access to our source code. We don't perceive the flow of the metaphorical 0s and 1s, we see instead the appearance of things.

The way I see it, we disregard the spirit of sex, and we manipulate it for fun, because it feels nice to rub ourselves against people. As a matter of fact, I myself lust for a woman's body, and I find this completely natural. But I think giving into this urge regularly is wrong in an absolute sense, and not in a moral sense mind you. And I don't make this statement from the viewpoint of a religious man. I make it from the standpoint of a programmer and an engineer. Self-control isn't a religious idea to me. It is the ability to override one's default settings; ie. biological imperatives.

There is of course no way for me to prove my good faith, or my genuine interest in the evolution and transcendence of humanity.

All things considered, for me not having sex isn't a matter of some stupid religious moral idea. It is my choice; to deploy my life force wisely and thoughtfully in order to stay young and strong, or to squander it aimlessly as I watch my youth pass me by.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

"Morality is IMO the inner equivalent of society's laws."

True, and actually, I think rape still exists today, physically and mentally. Rape by strict definition is the forcing of sex. However, many many people still manipulate their way into bed, which is a form of coercion. It's not against the law, nor should it be. But evolutionarily speaking, we're not that different from rapist animals.

Well geez, ADP, way to brag about your sex life! I never got laid at all when I was young, and I'm pretty sure that helped fuck my head up royally! LOL

No seriously, I know what you mean. The upbringing of a person does VERY MUCH influence his or her notions and feelings about sex. In a sense, we are all victims. And yet, we are simply creatures of habit. There's no reason to PLAY the victim, just acknolwedge what we are.

"I think her driving motivation was the sheer pleasure of corrupting innocence"

(I wish I had met a few like that when I was single)

Of course, I also grew up in a very religious household, which pretty much suppressed sex entirely unless it was within a marriage. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing...some people do love the whole, waiting thing. That said, I think having no sexual "oats" in one's early experience does influence his/her perspective.

For many years, I grew up with a very stringent, Christian approach to morals.

So yeah, I think I understand where you're coming from. Not to make the whole conversation about me, though. I enjoyed reading your interpretation of things.

" believe whenever we have sex we are in effect giving away our life force, regardless of whether we are doing it for fun or for whatever."

Damn, I like that Point of view. That's something I've never really thought about before.

"In light of the spirit of sex, prostitution is absurd."

I get what you're saying, but I don't think sex has to be pleasurable or spiritful to be enjoyable. I've written a great deal about Tantric sex, and I do get it. But the truth is, most people are content to have sex without spirit, as in the case of prostitution. I could care less if they are sexually fulfilled. I just don't see the necessity for society to dictate it.

Regulating what people already do is absurd. It's just going to cause more problems.

And come to think of it, THIS is a point many of us have not addressed.

If prostitution is legalized, will this not encourage many young and "innocent" women to seek out prostitution as a career choice when they really don't want to?

True, some already do now. But if it were legalized, then more women would be tempted to do so, rather than "waiting" to find a cleaner job ina recession.

[asiaticdarkperson]

I think if people realized that the reason we "get old" and become decrepit and senile is none other than a lack of energetic balance, no one would ever be interested in having sex for fun ever again.

Scientists tell us that senility is a normal part of life. They tell us it's natural for our physical and mental vigor to deteriorate as we live. I believe it is only normal for people who have sex (and masturbate.) I believe the reason children are bursting with energy and learn so easily is because their sexual energy is in check.

What happens when we start having sex? We become adults; ie. we constantly find ourselves tired, and learning new things becomes an impossible task.

If people only knew that they could stay young for the entire duration of their lives if they just controlled their sexual energy a little more wisely, prostitution would be obsolete and ridiculous IMO.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

But in the case of children, aren't they abstinent? So your advice to reach immortality is abstinence?

[asiaticdarkperson]

Come on Mitchell, at least give me a little credit bro. Who said anything about immortality?

I'm not saying celibacy can stop aging. But I most certainly am claiming that it can prevent a good deal of the physical and mental deterioration that accompanies aging these days.

But I think the confusion we have today over sex is just one of our many energy leaks. I believe that our spirit is so distorted that we kinda look like swiss cheese.

The way people are today, they are capable of accesing and utilizing maybe .1% of their total resources IMO. And I'm really not theorizing here.

Seriously Mitch, don't you find it odd that as an intelligent species, we are such worthless garbage? I would expect an intelligent species like people to be living in uber-utopia today. It's only logical that they should.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

You know ADP, there are some scientists and deep thinkers that speculate something is "off" with the human body and that by all rational, we should live forever...or at least much, much longer than we do. Even if Adam and Eve were a myth, is it possible that their 1000 year existence was closer to the truth? 80 or 90 years seems like such a waste of good human equipment.

So just to be clear, are you saying that celibacy can slow down aging or are you saying that stopping orgasm and ejaculation can stop aging? I've heard both theories.

[asiaticdarkperson]

Feb 16, 2012 16:11:20 GMT -5 The Late Mitchell Warren said:

So just to be clear, are you saying that celibacy can slow down aging or are you saying that stopping orgasm and ejaculation can stop aging? I've heard both theories.

LMAO! You're really funny Mitch.

But just in case you were being serious. I actually stressed that celibacy cannot stop aging. Aging is I believe a natural function of DNA. I believe we discovered this truth after we cloned sheep. I believe what scientists discovered was that if the genetic material is obtained from a mature sheep, the cloned sheep will be born "old" or mature. This is because DNA ages. I happen to know that when you want to take a cutting from a fruit tree to graft onto another, you ideally take it from adolescent trees. This way the branch that sprouts from your transplanted bud is as young as the tree it was taken from.

So, Mitch I don't believe celibacy can stop aging. But there are two kinds of old people. There are old people that are too feeble to take care of themselves, and there are old people who still enjoy their lives because they can still do all the things they could do when they were young.

Do you understand this distinction Mitchell? I hope you realize that this is no random chance phenomenon. If you make balanced use of your life force, you will be young even when you are old and wrinkled and white-haired. If you don't, you won't even be able to walk when you're old.

But to make this solely a matter of celibacy is too simplistic. It's really a matter of balance, and not just in sexual affairs, but the balance between our inner being and the outside world. Some people might not lose their balance even if they have sex every day, others like myself for instance, are thrown off balance even if they have sex once a year.

In any case, controlling sexual activity is just one step to achieving balance, but not for everyone. But still I don't believe even a completely balanced man could live to be much older than ~120 years, give or take. But he would definitely be young, active and quite capable even at that age I think.

Being old and young at the same time isn't some idea I made up, really! I've known quite a few people over 80 who either still played tennis, went swimming in the sea or worked with a shovel in the fields from dawn to dusk. I know one ninety year old man who takes viagra and fucks 20 year old hookers on a regular basis; he recently moved out of the city to a villa on the beach up north. He has a land rover that he won't trade for anything and he goes hunting in the forest with it. He's single and lives alone. I knew another guy who died two years ago; he lived to be 101 and up to his very last days he got up every morning before dawn, saddled his donkey and rode out to his orchard. Even with his advanced age, he'd spend the whole day out in the desert as all men do in the region. (staying at home would bore them to death) This is pretty much how a good many old rural people are over here. They refuse to "get old."

Heh. And what's more is, their wives usually outlive them!

Balance.

[The Late Mitchell Warren]

Hmmm I would think its attitude that helps people stay young, but I have consistently heard the theory of life balance, as in chakras, and the like.

How does one balance sex? How does one balance anything? Is happiness the indicator of balance?

[asiaticdarkperson]

I think the feeling of well-being is the indicator of balance. I would say a feeling of power, ease and luck is also a measure of one's balance.

A balanced individual is always incomprehensibly lucky, IMO. A balanced individual might not be happy all the time and yet his/her life is full of joy.

[Sparky]

I feel like prostitution should absolutely be legal. I believe it is a crime for any society to dictate what one is and is not allowed to do with their own body. Certainly, a fallacy in logic is present where a society allows a person to sell their body in one instance but not another. For example: a person is allowed to sell their plasma, eggs, and sperm but are prohibited from exchanging sexual favors for money. These kinds of contradictions are the nuts and bolts of a flawed system. As far as morals and ethics are concerned, I would have to say that both are examples of social constructs. I don’t feel like people are born with morals or ethics, these are learned behaviors that are influenced by one’s environment. I get that certain laws are developed to help provide connective tissue in a society and urge commonality but I also feel that a society’s control over a person should stop where that person’s body is concerned. If a person wants to sell a lawnmower or a kidney or sex on Craigslist, it should all be the same. I do, however, feel that if a person wants to live in a society and be a prostitute, they still incur a tax liability based on their income. So, if a hooker lives in the U.S. and makes $40,000 a year, it is their responsibility to pay taxes as an entrepreneur. The government really shouldn’t have any more trouble regulating the income of a prostitute than a mechanic or carpenter.

I agree that an underage person becoming a prostitute is not a good idea. I feel that a good compromise would be that a person could apply for a permit to prostitute when they turn 18 or 21 and any income earned prior to that is considered illegal. Also, a client who patronizes an unlicensed prostitute commits a crime by doing so.

@ ADP

I really appreciate the way you write! You have a good tone and flow. I just wanted to give you props there. At the same time, I wanted to offer another viewpoint that kind of counters your metaphysical notions (just for shits and giggles). I am not a big believer in life forces or balance because I don’t feel these things myself. I kind of believe in my own bastardization of Karma that is based more on chance than a divine energy or higher power. I feel that if a person acts with forward momentum in a positive direction, that person may find themselves in more positive positions and situations. To me, this is more a matter of statistics than a positive or negative reward for one’s actions from a higher power. Personally, I do not make much of a connection between sex and emotion. I feel that people only associate romance and love with sex as a learned behavior. It is logical to assume that sex can exist without love and love can exist without sex. I tend to completely separate the two. In my opinion, sex with another person for any reason other than reproduction is just an elaborate form of masturbation. As far a person’s longevity is concerned, I think it is one part desire and one part physical ability. Mind-over-matter…. to an extent and with certain limitations. Just my two cents.

[asiaticdarkperson]

Mar 9, 2012 15:25:55 GMT -5 Sparky said:

I am not a big believer in life forces or balance because I don’t feel these things myself.

This is sad and unfortunate.

But honestly I'm not a big believer in life force or balance either. I deal with them constantly and on a regular day to day basis just like a writer deals with his pen and paper (or laptop.) But it's really not a matter of beliefs to me.

As I said before, there is no way for me to prove my good faith. And yet I will say that I sometimes work as a healer, and I do know what I'm talking about.

I think one can describe the matter in any terms one feels comfortable, but the essential truth is that we are alive; there is some force keeping us alive. We don't know what it is.. we don't know how we exist and yet we know that we do in fact exist.

That invisible something which is keeping me alive, which is animating my body, is what I call the spirit, or life force.

Although today we (humanity) generally don't know the spirit.. ie. we don't know how we exist; we don't know what existence is, we don't know how anything exists or why it should exist.. I think we could get to know it personally and understand the true nature of our being..

Until then there is unfortunately nothing I could say to make you understand what I mean when I say things like "balance" and "life force"

Thanks for the kind words though..

[asiaticdarkperson]

And the point I was trying to make with morality and legality was thus:

If prostitution is legalized, what will discourage young girls from taking up the profession, if only for a short while to pay a few bills?

This question can be framed another way IMO. If drugs are legalized, what will stop everyone from using? And before you argue in terms of statistics and probabilities I will provide you with facts and evidence;

In places like Iran and Afghanistan where the use of opium and hasheesh has been socially, morally and culturally acceptable behavior for thousands of years, there are countless towns today where essentially the entire male population are opium users. Why wouldn't they be? There's nothing wrong with it morally or socially. And opium users are living long and full lives just like non-users. (opium is generally a benign habit here and is nothing like heroin.)

But in recent years the government has illegalized drugs and the mere "illegal status" has caused the prevalence of drug use to decline. Many young people today are staying away from drugs simply because it is 'wrong.'

And about prostitution. It seems the percentage of young dutch girls who have engaged in prostitution or porn is basically unparalleled anywhere else in the world. I don't have any concrete sources for this claim other than what I've heard from dutch people I've known and according to them it is absolutely alright for a young girl to sell sex for a little extra income, and pretty much everyone does it.. I've heard dutch people joking that their prostitutes get fucked by people of all nationalities and races.

It's just really simple IMO. You legalize something => you make it morally right; and once something becomes morally acceptable there is no reason not to do it.

I tell you, if drugs were legalized everyone would be doing them. and if prostitution were legalized, again everyone would be doing it. There are examples of these around the world.

So I believe it's obvious why most governments are adamant in keeping drugs and prostitution illegal. It really doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

I think alcohol is another perfect example.

In the west countless generations grew up believing that drinking alcohol is legally and morally right. And well, we all know how common drinking is in the west today.

In Muslim countries, for the past thousand years or so people grew up under the impression that drinking alcohol is both legally and morally wrong. Of course drinking alcohol exists today in muslim nations, but it is just no where near as common as it is in the west.

Obviously if drugs and prostitution were legalized today, you and I who grew up believing they were bad won't suddenly start believing they are good; but our children will most certainly grow up believing they are right and acceptable.

It's a no-brainer for me. I'm all for legalising psychedelics, yet I think narcotics and prostitution should remain morally unacceptable behavior but not punishable by law.

I don't want my kids growing up thinking that getting drunk or high is proper (right) behavior. I also don't want my daughter thinking it's ok for her to sell her pussy for some quick cash.

I want my kids to know that it's stupid to sell or buy sex, and it's stupid to drink or do drugs on a routine basis. If they are too stupid to realize this, then they probably need to do drugs and sell/buy sex.